Comments on: Kids: The Ultimate Bad Investment

By: jackie hoffman

jackie hoffman — Wed, 07 Mar 2007 03:32:42 +0000

man, i love this guy!

By: Val

Val — Mon, 05 Mar 2007 22:52:10 +0000

I guess I understand why parents get upset about people espousing their no-kids-ever philosophies, but I think it is refreshing to hear honest comments from the dark side. The breed-now line is preached at us incessantly. You are only on vacation from defending your choice to remain childless if you are single, biologically damaged, or desperately poor. Even then, I still had people insisting, “Oh, you will never be ready. Just have a baby. You’ll love it.” From the moment you get partnered on, perfect strangers will think nothing of asking you when you are having babies, and there is no way to be both truthful (never) and polite without spending an hour explaining yourself to said stranger. If conversations like these help make it more socially acceptable to be in long term relationships without kids, or just make breeders less comfortable bothering me about my non-breeding choice, then hurrah.

By: diane

diane — Sat, 03 Mar 2007 13:04:52 +0000

my name is diane and i love being a mommy. i guess i hate freedom. :P

By: eddie

eddie — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 21:32:14 +0000

Doug, Why don’t you just come out and say “My name is Doug and I hate freedom” and we’ll be square.

By: Doug

Doug — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 20:55:37 +0000

Eddie, your gross misrepresentation of my post makes me think you’re not really interested in what I had to say. Or you didn’t read my post clearly. Or you’re just defensive. I don’t know.

I said “I’m curious why the Dethroner-powers-that-be picked someone who has no kids to post an article on why you shouldn’t have kids.”

By my logic (using your President example), I do think Dethroner-powers-that-be would not be serving their readers well if they asked someone who has not been President to post an article saying that nobody should want to be President.

Your statement would be correct if I had said no one should criticize a parent if they’ve never been one. Except I didn’t say that. There are lots of good reasons NOT to have kids. I think more people should NOT have kids, declining reproduction rates aside.

The crux of my issue with your post is your position. Your article didn’t say, “Hey, here’s some reasons why I’m not having kids. Maybe you feel the same way.”

Instead, you said, to summarize, “Only egomaniacs and idiots have kids” (see your opening sentence). And that everyone that does, regrets it (see your closing sentence). Both of which are so obviously senseless for no other reason than the all-or-nothing wording of them.

I think I’m representing your post pretty fairly. I would appreciate it if you would do me the same courtesy. You offer up a strawman “analogy” and then destroy, not ever dealing with what I actually said.

But really my post was more directed at Joel & Co. than you. You don’t want to have kids, fine. Please don’t. No judgment there.

Anyway, I see this post has fallen off the front page (so many freakin’ posts on Dethroner now!), so I imagine this is quite dead. Cheers.

By: bridgitte

bridgitte — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 14:27:47 +0000

I’m on the same page, Rye. I quoted you only to illustrate the point that what sounds perfectly reasonable to one person sounds completely absurd to another, and I really didn’t intend for that to come off as a barb directed toward you. And thanks for saying that it’s all selfishness in the end. I think that opinions on both sides of the coin stem from that, and I don’t think that either decision is more selfish/selfless than the other. Like I said, I might not agree with people’s decicion to procreate, but I don’t think that makes me any better than them as a human being. We all have to be true to ourselves, and yes, it would be silly for us not to persue what makes us happy.

By: Rye

Rye — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 13:51:14 +0000

Bridgitte, perhaps I’m misconstruing your statement, or perhaps I didn’t clearly explain myself, but I’m pretty certain that my point centered around the idea that everyone’s goals are different. This should make the decision to have, or not to have, a child important to you and no one else, unless possibly you have nagging family members who feel that your procreation is a matter for committee debate, but lets not get into that.
The only silly thing, in my estimation, would be to make a decision that you didn’t believe would make you happy in the long run, as I know having children will do for me, and not having children will do for you. It’s all selfishness in the end, why else would we do the things that we do if not because we wanted to.

By: bridgitte

bridgitte — Fri, 02 Mar 2007 00:37:48 +0000

I’m in the no kids camp, and yes, some of the reasons behind that decision are purely selfish, but there are plenty that aren’t. They range from not wanting to pass on the depression that runs in my family to being concerned about what rampant consumerism is doing to the planet. Sounds silly to some, sure, but no more silly than “It would make me and my wife happy” (nothing personal, Rye) sounds to me.

I used to ask people who have kids why they wanted them, and after a lot of answers that didn’t seem much like answers at all, I got that there might not be a reason. Sometimes biology reigns supreme. So while I disagree with my friends’ decisions to have them, I’ve come to respect that some people are called to spawn. And to be honest, I’m glad to see that the people I know who do have kids have thought long and hard about having them and are taking the task seriously.

By: Queenie

Queenie — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 23:05:06 +0000

I’m sold on parenthood. I’m going to adopt an endangered Hollywood baby–Both Prince Michael Jacksons, DanieLynne Nicole Smith, Sean Preston Spears-Federline and Jaden James Spears-Federline, and Sri Cruise are ALL MINE.

By: eddie

eddie — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 22:40:08 +0000

So Doug, by your logic you should never be able to criticize any decision made by the president because you never held the highest office in the land, right? Doug logic dictates that the ‘powers that be’ in any form of media would only allow presidential criticism by Fmr. Pres. Clinton and Bush because they are the only one’s who can relate. Good Point Doug.

By: middy

middy — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 22:26:17 +0000

People without children will never know how deep love for another human being can be, and most will never truly be adults, as you can tell by the hipper-than-thou, sardonic hostility on display towards those who have the audacity to not hate parenthood.

Condescending ass.

By: junkshow

junkshow — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 22:24:05 +0000

Lucky for you your parents didn’t feel that way. That said, the world would be a much better place if people who didn’t want kids didn’t have kids. I could give a rat’s ass if anyone else decides to have kids or not, but I’m glad I did.

By: Jay Wilson

Jay Wilson — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 22:22:22 +0000

Honestly, I agree with Eddie.

My friends know me to be a giving loving guy, but I simply do not want to devote so much time, money, and effort to a manling.

And what’s the deal with people with seed who act as though a) you’re a freak for not wanting any of your own or are b) always saying “Oh, you’ll change your mind, you’ll see!” Seriously, that’s annoying as FUCK.

By: Doug

Doug — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 22:06:06 +0000

I’m curious why the Dethroner-powers-that-be picked someone who has no kids to post an article on why you shouldn’t have kids. I understand wanting to show other opinions, but this is just an uninformed one.

Would you have someone who never worked on a car write an article about how dumb an idea it is to work on your own car?

Or someone who has never played a game system tell you the only idiots would buy an Xbox 360?

Maybe if the piece was more “here’s why I don’t want to have kids” instead of “here’s why nobody should have kids” I’d understand. The opening sentence alone is complete nonesense.

And Eddie, of course the math doesn’t add up. If you’re just looking for a math equation, you should totally not have kids. They’re people, not algebra (nor soylent green). I’m sorry if your friends have had bad experiences parenting. I, for one, wouldn’t go back to bring parentless for anything in the world.

You may call that “soooooo darn cute” or mock me and my intentions, but the truth is you don’t know a thing about parenting. Sending $15/month to the Philippines is amirable, but not parenting.

And yes, we did do something special. 6 billion people may be able to have kids, but no one had my two girls but me and my wife. They are absolutely unique. Just like you.

By: eddie

eddie — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 21:27:54 +0000

I’m so far from bitter I’m sickeningly sweet. I love and fully enjoy my life, if you were me you would totally agree. I’m not that bad though, I sponsor a kid in the Philippines via Save the Children. Tristan (my son) has newscaster hair and likes to read. We were thoughtful in picking a child and chose wisely. A child soldier or 15 and preggers would be too depressing.

By: Justin

Justin — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 21:09:21 +0000

I realize that it has become hip or trendy to publically profess ones intense hatred of all children, and all who have them. I have to wonder what horrors these small people must have subjected you to (I’m looking at you Mike), what unnamed tortures you’ve had to endure to become physically ill in their very presence. Possibly it is what you had to endure when you were one of them??

Why should anyone without kids have to pay for public schooling? Why should I have to pay for your depends wearing forbearers to get a government check in the mail every month, or for the blind and deaf to have enough to eat at my expense for that matter. Your sense of how a modern society works is clearly impressive, and I applaud you for having the egotism to flaunt your ignorance for all to appreciate.

I am a father, and I take my job very seriously. Bringing the next generation into this world, especially with so many seeming to share the sentiments of Mike is challenging. It does make me somewhat sad that when people like Mike are lying in hospice care, at the end of lives focused completely on their own selfish wants, it will be the very same children, who they so clearly loathe today, that will be wiping their arses then.

By: Rye

Rye — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 20:55:03 +0000

I am confused as to why there is such a marked vehemence towards children by those who do not want them. The decision to have a child is not a referendum on your moral compass one way or the other.
At this point in the glorious acendency of our civilization, the decision to have a Child is much like the decision to purchase some ridiculously expensive luxury item. Obviously a Child is not a Sports Car or a Mansion, nor can one compare a Child to either, but the decisions to commit oneself to either the Child or the material possession are made by people with values and emotions. Those values may be different, but their disparity doesn’t make either person more stupid or selfish or ignorant than the other.
I personally plan to have several children because I know it will make me and my wife happy. I also know several friends who have no intention of doing any such thing. This doesn’t make us opponents in some kind of non-existent priorities debate, it simply illustrates the point that we strive towards different goals in our lives.
How about a little understanding on both sides of the aisle?

By: Elimination Communication: How Dads Can Ditch Diapering at Dethroner

Elimination Communication: How Dads Can Ditch Diapering at Dethroner — Thu, 01 Mar 2007 19:42:07 +0000

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